Aveti pe cineva bolnav de schizofrenie in familie?
Raspunsuri - Pagina 4
batool67 spune:
[quote]Originally posted by Mariaa
Nadina, imi pare tare rau 
Eu la un moment dat ma gandeam sa merg sa cer ajutor la un psiholog ca sa stiu cum s-o abordez pe mama (nu are schizofrenie, insa tot e afectata judecata)
Nimanui nu-i pasa in tara asta de kko...
Daca simti ca e necesar sa mergi la un consilier dute, o discutie cu un psiholog te va ajuta foarte mult sa faci fata situatiei.
batool67 spune:
quote:
Originally posted by Dorsilia
Eu tot citesc si nu ma dumiresc cum puteti sa considerati bolnavul psihic, oricum numai bolnav nu. Este dificil sa-l ingrijesti, da, cu atat mai mult cu cat stii sigur ca asa va fi toata viata lui, o piatra de moara de gatul familiei, dupa cum vad ca au unii idee. Dar de aici si pana la a-i pune in carca si faptul ca se foloseste de cei din jurul sau...ca profita de boala, e o viziune cam mefistofelica, daca nu sinistra chiar. Si un copil bolnav temporar de un rosu in gat e dificil de ingrijit pt ca te stoarce psihic si apoi si fizic insa nu pt ca ar dori-o ci pt ca se simte rau pur si simplu.
Deci sunt de acord ca sunt dificili insa nu ar trebui considerati asa, zau. Mai ales ca nici nu se pot apara. Poate cel mai in regula ar fi sa posteze aici si un bolnav psihic de schizofrenie, sa vedem cum ar considera el problema asta. Faptul ca par oameni sanatosi fizic si in putere nu inseamna nimic. Culmea! Daca erau galbejiti si indoiti de spate la 90 de grade erau "saraaaaaaaaaacii de ei".....asa....."prefacutii si profitorii!!"...hai sa ne plangem ca exista si ca ne umbresc viata roza
Nu conteaza ca sufletul lor e terci deloc?
Eu cred ca in masura sa judece situatia interactionarii cu un bolnav psihic sunt doar cei care vin in contact cu ei. Nu cred ca e cazul ca unii sa fie acuzati de lipsa de intelegere fata de acesti bolnavi, sau ca noi nu tinem cont de ce e in sufletul lor. Asa cum schizofrenii au dreptul la intelegere si persoanele care ii ingrijesc au acest drept. Nici nu iti poti imagina cum e sa traiesti in casa cu un astfel de bolnav. Nimeni nu a negat ca ei sunt bolnavi, si este la fel de adevarat ca ei ii pot manipula pe cei din jur, chiar daca sunt bolnavi. Sute de persoane pot confirma acest lucru, inclusiv psihiatrii si psihologii. Cumnata mea cum isi simte pozitia amenintata, cum incepe sa aiba grija de sotz. O astfel de atitudine cum o poti defini? Cum iti explici ca ea face doar cand vrea ea si daca vrea ceva? E drept ca e si vina fratelui meu ptr ca asa a fost obisnuita. Unii vor zice ca nu e treaba mea ce si cum . Eu spun ca atata timp cat locuim sub acelashi acoperish este si treaba mea , si mai ales ca e sotia fratelui meu imi pasa ce face si care ii sunt limitele. Ca absolventa de psihologie stiu foarte bine cum trebuie sa se comporte acesti bolnavi, care le sunt capacitatile si ce tip de relatie trebuie sa stabilesc cu ei. Nu vreau sa fiu compatimita dar cred ca unii nu prea dau dovada de neutralitate in acest topic.
ocebine spune:
Draga Batool67, eu opinia mi-am dat-o in plina cunostinda de cauza din ambele tabere (dar n-am scos diploma la vedere de 7 ori pina acuma sa ma disculp cumva si sa imi rationalizez deciziile...). Si eu am terminat o facultate de psihologie (si inca una dar n-are importanta deloc) si am avut in familia foarte apropiata pe cineva bolnav psihic (Sindrom maniaco-depresiv care probabil cunosti paralela cu schizofrenia). Unchiul meu (fratele mamei) a fost bolnav si ani de zile noi l-am avut in ingrijire. Deci am o opinie formata eu zic de pe ambele parti ale baricadei.
Boala psihica este extrem de parsiva...nu exista zile aidoma, starile sufletesti, reactiile, actiunile sint diferite de la zi la zi. Tocmai pentru ca nu au un echilibru, pacientii se comporta asa. Iti inteleg pozitia, stiu ca este foarte greu sa ingrijesti pe cineva bolnav si sa iti pastrezi mereu sufletul curat si deschis. Acesti oameni au adevarata nevoie de ingrijire fizica si emotionala NECONDITIONATA 100% din timp.
Crede-ma, situatia ei nu se va imbunatatii vreodata, schizofrenia nu are leac si doar se inrautateste...vor veni vremuri mult mai grele. Unchiul meu s-a sinucis si nu exista zi sa nu ma gindesc la el si sa nu regret faptul ca nu am avut timp suficient cu el...nu mai spun regretele mamei...Daca tragi un ochi la statistici citi schizofrenici sfirsesc in suicid (probabil ca deja cunosti dar din pozitia ta ti-e greu sa constientizezi) probabil ca ti-ai schimba putin opinia.
Fii mai iertatoare, mai intelegatoare si fericita ca sotul ai are capacitatea de a o iubi in acest fel. Foarte multi nu au acest noroc.
Este inselator sa spui ca altii functioneaza normal...din afara o boala psihica te pacaleste cu succes...nu esti in spatele usilor inchise sa asisti la adevarata drama.
Din acest motiv eu nu am putut niciodata practica ceea ce am studiat si m-am reprofilat...tindeam sa ma atasez emotional de pacienti si mi-am dat seama ca asta ma va distruge. Am un mare respect fata de toti cei care ingrijesc pe cei care au nevoie.
Anamaria
"After all is said & done, more is said than done."
cris30 spune:
Batool67, iarta-mi indiscretia dar cum ati ajuns sa locuiti sub acelasi acoperis??Ma gandesc ca poate ai posibilitatea sa te muti si sa stai linistita, daca esti casatorita cu atat mai mult.Daca fratelui ii convine situatia asta atunci lasa-l sa aibe singur grija de ea si incearca sa interferezi cat mai putin cu ea.Cumnata mea (sora sotului) deocamdata sta cu parintii, dar cand nu or mai fi ei, eu si sotul meu trebuie sa avem grija de ea.Asa ca ma pregatesc de pe acuma sa aflu cat mai multe despre boala si cum sa ma comport cu ea.Am descris mai pe larg situatia ei la pagina 2.
batool67 spune:
Ocebine, sunt de acord cu punctul tau de vedere, din aceleasi motive ca si tine am evitat sa lucrez intr/o clinica de psihiatrie.Cris s/a intamplat astfel din n motive, unul dintre ele fiind chiriile foarte scumpe. Am luat in calcul si varianta mutatului si in viitorul apropiat voi inchiria o alta locuinta.
bird70 spune:
Imi pare rau ca nu am timp sa traduc textul urmator si nici nu am talentul sa-l traduc ca sa-si pastreze puterea mesajului. A fost scris de Pat Deegan o femeie care sufera de schizofrenie si care si-a facut doctoratul in boli mentale.
quote:
It started for most of us in the prime of our youth. At first we could not name it. It came like a thief in the night and robbed us of our youth, our dreams, our aspirations and our futures. It came upon us like a terrifying nightmare that we could not awaken from.
And then, at a time when we most needed to be near the one's we loved, we were taken away to far off places. At the age of 14 or 17 or 22 we were told that we had a disease that had no cure. We were told to take medications that made us slur and shake, that robbed our youthful bodies of energy and made us walk stiff like zombies. We were told that if we stayed on these medications for the rest of our lives we could perhaps maintain some semblance of a life. They kept telling us that these medications were good for us and yet we could feel the high dose neuroleptics transforming us into empty vessels. We felt like will- less souls or the walking dead as the numbing indifference and drug induced apathy took hold. At such high dosages, neuroleptics radically diminished our personhood and sense of self.
As these first winds of winter settled upon us we pulled the blankets up tight around our bodies but we did not sleep. During those first few nights in the hospital we lay awake. You see, at night the lights from the houses in the community shine through the windows of the mental institution. Life still went on out there while ours crumbled all about us. Those lights seemed very, very far away. The Zulu people have a word for our phrase "far away". In Zulu "far away" means, "There where someone cries out : 'Oh mother, I am lost" (Buber 1958, p. 18). And indeed, this is how far away it felt in the mental hospital. The road back home was not clear. And as we lay there in the darkness we were scared and could not even imagine the way out of this awful place. And when no one was looking we wept in all of that loneliness.
But when morning came we raged. We raged against the bleak prophesies that were being made for our lives. They are wrong! They are wrong! We are not crazy. We are not like those other ones over there who have been in this hospital too long. We are different. We will return home and everything will be just the same. It's just a bad dream. A temporary setback.
In time we did leave the hospital. We stood on the steps with our suitcases in hand. We had such courage - our youthful optimism waved like triumphant flags at a homecoming parade. We were going to make it. We were never going to come back to the hospital again. Some did make it. But most of us returned home and found that nothing was the same anymore. Our friends were frightened of us or were strangely absent. They were overly careful when near us. Our families were distraught and torn by guilt. They had not slept and their eyes were still swollen from the tears they cried. And we, we were exhausted. But we were willing to try. And I swear, with all the courage we could muster we tried to return to work and to school, we tried to pick up the pieces, and we prayed for the strength and perseverance to keep trying. But it seemed that God turned a deaf ear to our prayers. The terrible distress came back and our lives were shattered once again.
And now our winter deepened into a bone chilling cold. Something began to die in us. Something way down deep began to break. Slowly the messages of hopelessness and stigma which so permeated the places we received treatment, began to sink in. We slowly began to believe what was being said about us. It seemed that the system tried to break our spirit and was more intent on gaining, even coercing our compliance, than listening to us and our needs.
We found ourselves undergoing that dehumanizing transformation from being a person to being an illness: "a schizophrenic", "a multiple", "a bi-polar" (Deegan 1992). Our personhood and sense of self continued to atrophy as we were coached by professionals to learn to say, "I am a schizophrenic"; "I am a bi-polar"; "I am a multiple". And each time we repeated this dehumanizing litany our sense of being a person was diminished as "the disease" loomed as an all powerful "It", a wholly Other entity, an "initself" that we were taught we were powerless over.
Professionals said we were making progress because we learned to equate our very selves with our illness. They said it was progress because we learned to say "I am a schizophrenic". But we felt no progress in this. We felt time was standing still. The self we had been seemed to fade farther and farther away, like a dream that belonged to somebody else. The future seemed bleak and empty and promised nothing but more suffering. And the present became an endless succession of moments marked by the next cigarette and the next.
So much of what we were suffering from was overlooked. The context of our lives were largely ignored. The professionals who worked with us had studied the science of physical objects, not human science. They did not understand what the neurologist Oliver Sacks (1970) so clearly articulates: "To restore the human subject at the center - the suffering, afflicted, fighting, human subject - we must deepen a case history to a narrative or tale; only then do we have a 'who' as well as a 'what', a real person, a patient, in relations to disease - in relations to the physical. . . the study of disease and identity cannot be disjoined. . . (stories) bring us to the very intersection of mechanism and life, to the relation of physiological processes to biography" (p.viii). But no one asked for our stories. Instead they thought our biographies as schizophrenics had been already been written nearly a century before by Kraeplin and Blueler.
Yet much of what we were going through were simply human experiences - experiences such as loss and grief and shock and fear and loneliness. One by one our friends, relatives and perhaps even families left us. One by one the professionals in our lives moved on and it became too difficult to trust anyone. One by one our dreams and hopes were crushed. We seemed to lose everything. We felt abandoned in our everdeepening
winter.
The weeks, the months or the years began to pass us by. Now our aging was no longer marked by the milestones of a year's accomplishments but rather by the numbing pain of successive failures. We tried and failed and tried and failed until it hurt too much to try anymore. Now when we left the hospital it was not a question of would we come back, but simply a question of when would we return. In a last, desperate attempt to protect ourselves we gave up. We gave up trying to get well. Giving up was a solution for us. It numbed the pain. We were willing to sacrifice enormous parts of ourselves in order to say "I don't care". Our personhood continued to atrophy through this adaptive strategy of not caring anymore. And so we sat in chairs and smoked and drank coffee and smoked some more.. It was a high price to pay for survival. We just gave up. And winter settled in upon us like a long cold anguish.
zzzburlici spune:
hey, oameni buni, incetati sa ii considerati profitori pe bolnavii de schizofrenie! tot ceea ce vedeti sunt manifestarile bolii, bolnavul nu e lenes pentru ca asa a decis el sa fie, ci pentru ca nu mai are control asupra vointei sale. este un regres care trebuie inteles si luat ca atare si, pornind de la situatia concreta, ar trebui stabilit un plan de interventie.
daca bolnavul nu are chef de nimica, nu-i cel mai indicat sa-l puneti sa faca exercitii fizice de trei ori pe zi, sa zicem. trebuie inceput cu lucruri marunte, ca de pilda sa-l invatati sa isi spele cana dupa ce isi bea cafeaua, dimineata. pas cu pas, incetul cu incetul, bolnavul trebuie reeducat, trebuie ajutat sa-si redobandeasca autonomia. iar chestia asta nu se face intr-o zi, e nevoie de luni sau ani de munca. iar daca, intre timp, traieste o noua criza, totul trebuie luat de la inceput, urmand aceeasi metoda: incetul cu incetul, cate un pas odata.
eu mi-s intervenant intr-o rezidenta pentru persoane atinse de schizofrenie si pot sa va asigur ca readaptarea asta da rezultate, in majoritatea cazurilor.
Dorsilia spune:
quote:
Originally posted by batool67quote:
Originally posted by Dorsilia
Eu tot citesc si nu ma dumiresc cum puteti sa considerati bolnavul psihic, oricum numai bolnav nu. Este dificil sa-l ingrijesti, da, cu atat mai mult cu cat stii sigur ca asa va fi toata viata lui, o piatra de moara de gatul familiei, dupa cum vad ca au unii idee. Dar de aici si pana la a-i pune in carca si faptul ca se foloseste de cei din jurul sau...ca profita de boala, e o viziune cam mefistofelica, daca nu sinistra chiar. Si un copil bolnav temporar de un rosu in gat e dificil de ingrijit pt ca te stoarce psihic si apoi si fizic insa nu pt ca ar dori-o ci pt ca se simte rau pur si simplu.
Deci sunt de acord ca sunt dificili insa nu ar trebui considerati asa, zau. Mai ales ca nici nu se pot apara. Poate cel mai in regula ar fi sa posteze aici si un bolnav psihic de schizofrenie, sa vedem cum ar considera el problema asta. Faptul ca par oameni sanatosi fizic si in putere nu inseamna nimic. Culmea! Daca erau galbejiti si indoiti de spate la 90 de grade erau "saraaaaaaaaaacii de ei".....asa....."prefacutii si profitorii!!"...hai sa ne plangem ca exista si ca ne umbresc viata roza
Nu conteaza ca sufletul lor e terci deloc?
Eu cred ca in masura sa judece situatia interactionarii cu un bolnav psihic sunt doar cei care vin in contact cu ei. Nu cred ca e cazul ca unii sa fie acuzati de lipsa de intelegere fata de acesti bolnavi, sau ca noi nu tinem cont de ce e in sufletul lor. Asa cum schizofrenii au dreptul la intelegere si persoanele care ii ingrijesc au acest drept. Nici nu iti poti imagina cum e sa traiesti in casa cu un astfel de bolnav. Nimeni nu a negat ca ei sunt bolnavi, si este la fel de adevarat ca ei ii pot manipula pe cei din jur, chiar daca sunt bolnavi. Sute de persoane pot confirma acest lucru, inclusiv psihiatrii si psihologii. Cumnata mea cum isi simte pozitia amenintata, cum incepe sa aiba grija de sotz. O astfel de atitudine cum o poti defini? Cum iti explici ca ea face doar cand vrea ea si daca vrea ceva? E drept ca e si vina fratelui meu ptr ca asa a fost obisnuita. Unii vor zice ca nu e treaba mea ce si cum . Eu spun ca atata timp cat locuim sub acelashi acoperish este si treaba mea , si mai ales ca e sotia fratelui meu imi pasa ce face si care ii sunt limitele. Ca absolventa de psihologie stiu foarte bine cum trebuie sa se comporte acesti bolnavi, care le sunt capacitatile si ce tip de relatie trebuie sa stabilesc cu ei. Nu vreau sa fiu compatimita dar cred ca unii nu prea dau dovada de neutralitate in acest topic.
Esti ceea ce iti doresti sa fii....
si eu sunt absolventa de psihologie, nu stiu daca asta conteaza, dar eu am considerat situatia mai mult dpdv uman
zzzburlici spune:
quote:
si eu sunt absolventa de psihologie, nu stiu daca asta conteaza, dar eu am considerat situatia mai mult dpdv uman
o opinie profesionista si de un bun simt desavarsit.. :)
felicitari.
ubita spune:
Ptr nestiutori foamea excesiva se datoreaza pastilelor...de aceea f multe persoane care iau tratament pt asemenea boli sunt obeze,daca cititi prospectul va ingroziti cate efecte edverse au si pot avea mai ales din cauza obezitatii care o dezv .Medicam de ultima generatie dau pofta de mincare excesiva,bolnavul trebuie controlat in sensul educarii pt o mincare sanatoasa chiar daca maninca des ...si daca e posibil multa miscare.Sunt aceleasi persoane care le stiati odata..mame,frati,surori, care va iubesc si v-au iubit numai ca creierul le este afectat desi asta nu se vede la nici-un tomograf.Le sunt acentuate defectele capatate pe parcursul vietii si asta din cauza bolii,incercati sa-i intelegeti ,nu-i condamanti si voi,destul i-a condamnat D-zeu.E greu dar cel mai greu e pt cei din jur,ei nu constientizeaza ca sunt bolnavi,un razboi al nervilor dar aveti grija sa nu va lasati afectati psihic ,trebuie rabdare,intelegere si luati situatia asa cum este.Pot fi rautaciosi,lenesi,se retrag,dorm mult,maninca mult,nu vb decat daca e nevoie,au fixuri,au zile bune si zile rele..treb intelesi.Daca voi cei apropiati ii judecati asa......ce va asteptati de la strainii nestiutori???????????????????????????