Biblia (5)

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Raspunsuri - Pagina 3

irina.c. spune:

quote:
Originally posted by hannen

Irina,eu ar trebui sa ma retrag pt. ca deranjez dar totusi vreau sa te intreb cum de esti asa sigura ca tu nu ai de-a face nimic si ca Allah nu este Creatorul tau?
Daca intr-o zi iti va fi dovedit contrariul?
Plus ca nu stiu cum poti sa crezi ca acest om a avut niste intuitii si atit.
De asta ziceam,unii ii recunosc pe altii ,dar altii nu-i recunosc pe unii insa toti se cred credinciosi.-------------------------------------------
EL v-a orinduit voua religia pe care i-a prescris-o lui Noe,pe care ti-am revelat-o tie si am prescris-o pentru Avraam,Moise si Iisus:"Intemeiati religia si nu despartiti intru ea!"Li se pare prea mare politeistilor aceea la care tu ii chemi.Allah ii alege (pt. aceasta)pe aceea pe care EL voieste si ii calauzeste catre EL pe aceia care se caiesc.
(Coran 42:13)

Hai,mey,nu te supara si nu pleca ,ca nu deranjezi pe nimeni,iar mie imi esti foarte draga

.Aici toti avem de invatat unii de la altii,uite asa se mai spulbera cate o prejudecata,cate o idee gresita(sau apar altele noi

).
Iar ca sa-ti raspund la intrebare,asta e riscul credintei,va veni ziua sfarsitului in care fiecare va vedea daca e adevarat sau nu ce a crezut.De asta se cheama ca umblam prin credinta,nu prin vedere(adica noi credem lucruri pe care nu le-am vazut).Irina si bb Ilinca(26 apr '04)
Traiesc in Romania si asta imi ocupa tot timpul
today

conchita spune:

quote:
Originally posted by hannen

Elena ,tot nu m-ai inteles.Dar nu-i nimic!Eu nu vreau sa va(mai) tulbur din linistea voastra.
Aceste discutii nu fac bine sufletului meu ,dar imi vor fi poate de folos intr-o zi cind voi fi intrebata daca am adus la cunostinta oamenilor adevarul.Oricum tu ,sau altii care cred diferit nu aveti cum intelege acest lucru.

va amintiti de discutia noastra mai veche, de la topicul ala cu unirea bisericilor cand majoritatea sustinea ca da, poti sa ramai neclintit cand cineva din exterior puncteaza "defectele" religiei in care crezi - si ca asta e dovada de toleranta, acceptand ca toate religiile au dreptate in acelasi timp cu faptul ca sunt imperfecte?

ei bine, Hannen, teoria ne sinucide, ca in practica si tu, si crestinii am comite pacat de moarte lasand numele Domnului luat in deshert (asa cum interpretam noi chestiunea). asa ca, interesele noastre in discutie coincid (sa ne slavim Dumnezeul), dar tot interesele astea is si cauza de contradictie si conflict (ca slavim interpretari diferite ale lui Dumnezeu). poti sa iesi din asa dilema? care e atitudinea cea mai buna?

iar daca tu participi la discutie cu gandul ca vei fi rasplatita intr-o zi cu mantuirea pentru asta, eu nu pot decat sa ma bucur ca am contribuit cu putinul meu la rasplata cuvenita tie. :-) ca, vezi tu, ortodoxia nu propovaduieste prozelitismul.

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Cataghe, hai steaua!

iubibubi spune:

quote:
Originally posted by cataghe

te rog frumos nu mai spune ca ne simpatizezi pe amandoua, suntem oameni mari si stim ca asta nu se poate; in plus, pt mine e jignitor sa ma bagi in aceeasi oala cu anume persoane, indiferent de oala

ngngng

am inteles sa traiti! da' oala mea e mai... eclectica, asa. si n-am alta, sa traiti!

iubibubi spune:

apropo de ziua de odihna

in Biblia ortodoxa scrie asa: Dupa ce a trecut sambata, cand se lumina de ziua intai a saptamanii (Duminica), au venit Maria Magdalena si cealalta Marie, ca sa vada mormantul. (Matei 28-1)

denizel+Jocelyn, in Biblia protestanta cum scrie (in aceeasi evanghelie, acelasi capitol, acelasi verset)?

conchita spune:

ca sa fie clar ca nu ne inchinam la acelasi Dumnezeu (desi Dumnezeu e unul singur, asa e), sa citeasca aici cine e interesat citate din Coran unde se scrie negru pe alb exact acelasi lucru, ca nu avem acelasi Dumnezeu. si ca musulmanii au plan de exterminare pentru toti cei care cred in Sfanta Treime (considerata blasfemie) sau sunt urmasii lui Avraam:

Surah 5:73, Their touting is not true. The God of the Bible is not Allah of the Koran. "They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three. . .for there is no God except one Allah.

Surah 4:157, Muslims do not believe that Christ was crucified but that it just appeared that He died. "That they said (in boast) ‘we killed Christ Isa, the son of Mary’. . .they killed him not, nor crucified him.

"Allah has said: ‘The Jews call Uzair a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth!

"They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary: Yet they were commanded to worship but one Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to him: (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with him)." (Al-Taubah 9:30-31).

"In blasphemy indeed are they who say that Allah is the Christ, son of Mary." (Al-Maidah 5:17 and 72)

"They do blaspheme who say, ‘God is one of three (in a Trinity)." (Al-Maidah 5:73)

"Those who reject (truth) among the People of the Book (Christians). . .will be in hell-fire to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures." (Al-Bayyinah 98:6).

2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them.

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause.

4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.

5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.

8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.

8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.

8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers.

9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

9:23, O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.

9:29, Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.

9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed.

9:111, Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an

9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

22:9, (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah: for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).

22:19-22, These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"

25:52, So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.

25:68, Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy.

37:22-23, "Bring ye up", it shall be said, "The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped- Besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the (Fierce) Fire!

47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.

48:13, And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!

48:29, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.

69:30-37, (The stern command will say): "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin."

intr-adevar, Coranul asta in engleza nu se gaseste la tarabe si nu a fost daruit de Asociatia Musulmanilor din Romania. e de la nenea gogu, sursa valida. si cu asta, iau si eu time out de la Coran ca daca mai continui mult, poate ma pune pacatul sa zic si cine cred eu ca e "Allah" cu adevarat, cu Mahomed cu tot. pentru ca o asa invatatura a crimei nu putea veni de la Dumnezeu.

denizel spune:

quote:
Originally posted by iubibubi

apropo de ziua de odihna

in Biblia ortodoxa scrie asa: Dupa ce a trecut sambata, cand se lumina de ziua intai a saptamanii (Duminica), au venit Maria Magdalena si cealalta Marie, ca sa vada mormantul. (Matei 28-1)

denizel+Jocelyn, in Biblia protestanta cum scrie (in aceeasi evanghelie, acelasi capitol, acelasi verset)?

I.www.desprecopii.com/chatnew/Desprecopiichat/PaginapersonalaView.asp?nickname=iubibubi" target="_blank">Andrei&Mara

iubibubi, prezent!:)
Deci, Matei 28:1:

"La sfarsitul zilei Sabatului, cand incepea sa se lumineze inspre ziua dintai a saptamanii, Maria Magdalena si cealalta Marie au venit sa vada mormantul"

" Maamiii, îmi place pielea ta. E ca de câltitzã" :)) - din jurnalul unei mãmici de bãietzel.

iubibubi spune:

denizel, . si daca tot te-am prins:): voi cand sarbatoriti Pastele? + in afara de Sabat, mai aveti si alte zile de sarbatoare (cum e in calendarul ortodox)?

anghel1111 spune:

Conchita ,la care Dumnezeu faci tu referinta? La cel din VT de frica caruia tremurau evrei ,si care ii ameninta si ii pedepsea aspru daca greseau , cel care ii indemna la uciderea popoarelor din Cannan ( vezi Deutoronom),care participa efectiv la aceste actiuni,,Dupãce Domnul, Dumnezeul tãu, va nimici toate neamurile acelea a cãror þarã þi-o dã Domnul, Dumnezeul tãu, dupãce le vei izgoni ºi vei locui în cetãþile ºi în casele lor,"(Deut12:29 si 19:1) Oameni care aveau o singura vina ca traiau in tara aceea si nu se inchinau acelui Dumnezeu al evreilor pentru ca nu le spusese nimeni sa o faca ? Acel Dumnezeu gelos ,egoist si
neindurator(toate aceste caracterizari le gasesti in cuprinsul intregului VT),,cãci Domnul, Dumnezeul tãu, este un Dumnezeu gelos în mijlocul tãu. Altfel, Domnul, Dumnezeul tãu, S'ar aprinde de mînie împotriva ta, ºi te-ar nimici de pe faþa pãmîntului.(Deut.6:15"),,Domnul va trimete împotriva ta blestemul, turburarea ºi ameninþarea, în mijlocul tuturor lucrurilor de cari te vei apuca, pînã vei fi nimicit, pînã vei pieri curînd, din pricina rãutãþii faptelor tale, care te-a fãcut sã Mã pãrãseºti.""
,,sau de cel care ne este prezentat in NT care ne indeamna sa ne iubim unii pe altii si pe dusmanii nostri,bun si iertator? Poate ca in Coran se face referinta la Cel din VT?!? Intreb si eu asa ca un om nestiutor ce ma aflu

cataghe spune:

quote:
Originally posted by hannen

Cataghe,eu am zis deja ca nici tu ,nici eu nu stim daca eu o sa conving pe cineva de ceva ,sau daca eu o sa fiu convinsa ...

Da, Hannen, ai spus, si asta e parerea ta. Parerea mea e ca nu aveti nici o sansa de a va convinge una pe alta de ceva si am dreptul sa mi-o exprim daca vreau. E mai clar acum?

quote:

Dar bineinteles ca ai dreptul sa-ti spui parerea ,insa felul cum o zici conteaza.suna asa ca un indemn pt . celelalte fete sa nu-si mai piarda vremea cu una ca mine.
Una care oricum nu merita bagata in seama.

Imi pare rau, ai inteles complet gresit. Nu am spus nicaieri ca nu meriti sa fii bagata in seama, astea sunt speculatiile tale, nu te supara. Cum am mai spus (foarte clar, de altfel), demersul tau de a convinge crestinele de adevarul religiei tale mi se pare exact la fel de inutil ca si demersul lor de a te convinge pe tine de adevarul credintei lor. Prin urmare, nu se pune problema ca cineva merita sau nu mai mult decat altcineva sa fie bagat in seama.

quote:

A sunat ca si cum mi-ai fi ris in nas,asa finutz si desi m-a deranjat m-am abtinut de la comentarii pina cind m-ai nominalizat iar pe lista celor care va tulbura discutiile pasnice.

Gresit din nou, nu ma refeream la tine ca fiind persoana care tulbura discutiile pasnice, si nici macar nu eram eu aceea care am acuzat pe cineva ca tulbura discutiile. Cred ca nu ai fost atenta.

quote:

Plus ironia cu pupaturile si dragostea excesiva.E problema mea cu cine ma pup si cu cine ma cert si nu vad de ce ar trebui sa fiu luata in balon,tot asa finutz.

Te rog sa ma scuzi ca nu cred deloc in manifestarile voastre de simpatie. Sunt absolut convinsa ca nu sunt altceva decat un semn de mare naivitate din partea unora (si aici te inscrii si tu) si de mare ipocrizie din partea altora (si aici se stiu ei bine aia care se inscriu). Tu daca vrei sa te pupi, pupa-te linistita, dar, din nou, e dreptul meu sa ma amuz cand stiu exact cum stau lucrurile. Daca ai sta nitel sa te gandesti ti-ai aminti ca de multe ori am fost de partea ta atunci cand te muscau de... hm!, aia cu care te pupi acum, si atunci poate ca ti-ar fi clar ca nu am nimic cu tine personal. Te-am respectat intotdeauna, insa asta nu inseamna ca nu o sa-ti spun atunci cand nu sunt de acord cu tine sau cand mi se pare ca atitudinea ta e nepotrivita. Ceea ce imi doresc si mie. Pa!

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"The reports on my death are greatly exaggerated." (Mark Twain)