Cine a scris Biblia?

denizel spune:

Tocmai, nu e nici o problema!!!
Problema e ca tu ai vrea ca un istoric sa iti spuna ca Isus a fost Dumnezeu. Spre deosebire de tine, eu nu astept asta de la un istoric. Imi e de ajuns sa stiu ca un om, Isus, a existat.
Anyhing else?

Zero toleranta pentru lipsa de toleranta fata de un copil !

Maamiii, îmi place pielea ta! E ca de câltitză" :-)) - din jurnalul unei mămici de băietel.

gaba-rema spune:

Mai exista vreun fragment din scrierile apocrife cele mai timpurii, ca Evanghelia dupa Toma, Evanghelia dupa Petru, sau au fost toate distruse?

conchita spune:

hai sa fim seriosi. nici darwin n-a indraznit sa-i zica pe nume, asa ca s-a reorientat spre "veriga lipsa".

blackpanterro spune:

Denizel, eu nu astept de la nimeni nimic, nu stiu de ce ai impresia asta. Am spus ca el a prezentat un om, nici macar prezentare nu a facut ca apare numai in vreo doua paragrafe.

Eu ma mir doar de ce e respins ce a scris el de unii teologi. Atat! Pe ce baza spui ca ce au scris apostolii e real si ce a scris el nu este?

Documentarul, daca l-ai urmarit, prezinta cum a fost scrisa biblia.

Cred ca esti constienta ca exista un numar mare de intamplari in biblie care pur si simplu nu s-au intamplat niciodata si aici las la o parte miracolele.



Adriana si Aidan Alexander(27.06.2005)
A ticket to hell has never been funnier

"Friendship is like peeing in your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel its true warmth."

Ingrid S spune:

Vorbiti despre Flavius Josephus? Vreau si eu linkul ala, mersi.
Conchita, daca tu ai mai citit si despre alte marturii istorice, te rog sa scrii despre ele.

Ingrid S si Diana
www.dropshots.com/Ingrid28_photo" target="_blank"> FILME 1
www.dropshots.com/Ingrid28photo" target="_blank"> FILME 2
www.dropshots.com/Ingrid28photo1" target="_blank"> FILME 3


Cativa nebuni si-au spus la masa: "Numai noi formam aici lumea buna". Si lumea ii crede.
Vauvenargues

denizel spune:

Ba nu, nu ai spus asta.
Ai spus ca nu exista dovezi istorice ale prezentei lui Isus. Iti mai pun odata citatul?
Apoi ai spus ca istoricii au spus despre Isus doar ca a fost un om. Dar ce ai fi vrut sa spuna ca a fost? Un corcodus?




Si anume ce teologi resping scrierile lui Josephus???? N-am auzit despre asta. Poate ai auzit tu, in telenovelele de pe Discovery.
Daca e vorba de niste teologi care vor ca istoricii sa le spuna care om a fost Dumnezeu si care altminteri, nu-i baga in seama .



Nu, nu l-am urmarit, pentru ca nu ma mai intereseaza documentarele despre religie si Biblie de pe Discovery. Impusca-ma! :))




Da, sunt constienta ca unele "intamplari" nu s-au petrecut exact asa cum au fost relatate.

Zero toleranta pentru lipsa de toleranta fata de un copil !

Maamiii, îmi place pielea ta! E ca de câltitză" :-)) - din jurnalul unei mămici de băietel.

ladyJ spune:

Panteruto, in scrieri religioase vei gasi IIsus Divinul. In scrieri LAICE vei gasi IIsus..omul. Logic, nu?

IIsus om, nu are cum sa apara in scrieri decat ca Mesia, pentru ca asa s-a ´´facut cunoscut´´. Nu a fost un conducator de armate, nu a fost un Cezar, nu a fost un mare politician pamantesc ca sa apara opere despre el, in istorie. Tot ce apare, repet, este dpdv religios, pentru ca....stii de ce.

blackpanterro spune:

Asa e LadyJ, dar de ce scrierile laice sunt respinse? Cine are autoritatea sa spuna ca scrierile laice sunt false?

Denizel cu tine nu se poate discuta, ma rog eu nu pot, "impusca-ma"!

Dar uite, despre cat de disputat e Josephus, daca tot sunt wikipedista si semidocta ca sa se umfle si pretena in pene.

"The authenticity of the Testimonium Flavianum has been disputed since the 17th century, and by the mid 18th century the consensus view was that it was at a minimum embellishment by early Christian scribes, if not a forgery. The other passage simply mentions Jesus as the brother of James, also known as James the Just. Most scholars consider this passage genuine, but its authenticity has been disputed by Emil Schürer as well by several recent po****r writers."

-de pe Wiki

Si aici in revista Time pe care intamplator o am

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,905859,00.html

"But Josephus' ingenuous paragraph appeared to be everything that Christian apologists could ask from a supposedly unbiased source: virtual confirmation of the basic truths of their faith. The trouble was, scholars began to object during the Enlightenment, that such a passage could hardly have been written by a nonbeliever, and had almost certainly been reworked by some pious Christian editor. As historical evidence, the Testimonium Flavianum, as the passage was called, fell into disrepute."

Adriana si Aidan Alexander(27.06.2005)
A ticket to hell has never been funnier

"Friendship is like peeing in your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel its true warmth."

denizel spune:

Si Tacit vorbeste despre Isus, Pilat care a condamnat la moarte un Christus, crestini si o anume "superstitie daunatoare", care se pare ca aduce o marturie indirecta si involuntara in sprijinul convingerii Bisericii timpurii cum ca Hristos, care fusese rastignit, s-a ridicat din mormant.

Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the po****ce. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become po****r. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.


Gasiti pasajul aici (click pe Book XV):

http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=ancienthistory&cdn=education&tm=37&f=10&su=p897.4.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//webatomics.com/Classics/Tacitus/annals.html


Fragmentul de mai sus mi se pare o confirmare independenta a faptului ca Isus a trait si a fost oficial!! executat in Iudeea, pe vremea imparatului Tiberiu si a lui Pontiu Pilat, care detinea pe atunci functia de procurator.

Desigur, aceasta mentiune nu pare intr-atat de semnificativa, dar se dovedeste totusi extrem de utila in combaterea teoriilor pe care unii inca le mai aduc in discutie:
- Isus din Nazaret n-a existat niciodata
- El nu a murit in urma pedepsei cu moartea pe care i-au aplicat-o romanii la vremea stiuta.

Maamiii, îmi place pielea ta! E ca de câltitză" :-)) - din jurnalul unei mămici de băietel.

denizel spune:

Pante, este o prostie sa spui ca scrierile laice sunt respinse. Tocmai ca nu-s respinse, ca doar credinciosii nu sunt tampiti ca sa respinga pe cei care confirma ca, daaa!!!, Isus a existat candva.
Ca unii sunt nemultumiti de cum il descriu istoricii pe Isus, e altceva. Si eu sunt nemultumita de cum l-a descris Culianu pe Isus, dar asta e cu totul si cu totul alta discutie.
Parerea mea e ca tu nu prea stii ce vrei sa vezi scris :).

Zero toleranta pentru lipsa de toleranta fata de un copil !

Maamiii, îmi place pielea ta! E ca de câltitză" :-)) - din jurnalul unei mămici de băietel.